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[VT80+] Doubt, really have 80W RMS power?

Started 1 year ago by argentino

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argentino

Member

argentino
 

Hello dear friends, comrades of Valvetronix

I'm a old user of VT30 watts... And now with a economical much effort, and saving money, i changed for the new VT80+.

I'm happy with Valvetronix, but i have fear of being a victim of a scam comercial, by the next technical question about watts RMS.

VT80 have a 12" speaker, but his box is a very small and the power consumption also. That makes me doubt ¿VT80+ REALLY IS HAVE POWER OUTPUT OF 80 WATTS?

Search in VT manuals, in technical specifictations, says that The VT30 have a power consumption of ... 40W. And the new VT80 have a power consuption of only ... 54W. Not is rare?

Is possible that only with 54W power consumption the amplifier haves output 80WATTS RMS?

I wait a reply for answer my doubt!

Much thanks

Grettings from Buenos Aires city.


Posted 1 year ago

 

voxman

VOX Forum Moderator

voxman
 

I think you ask a reasonable question and there was a discussion on this a while back at Valvetronix.net. The VT+ series are Class D amps that are very efficient, but there are different ways of assessing an amps power/volume output and perhaps the '+' designation is somewhat confusing.

I'm sure the power description/rating can be fully supported by Vox, but when I first tried the VT40+ I must admit the wonderful bit in 'Spinal Tap' about the Marshall amp being '1 louder' because the dial went up to 11' flashed through my mind when I saw the new power selector layout! lol

My best understanding is that the output stage can produce a power rating beyond the model number rating, hence the + in VT20+, VT40+ etc. There is a shaded area on the final output power control. If you set it just on the beginning of the shaded area you’ll get up to the wattage denoted by the model number (40 watts for the VT40+) but if you push the output dial in to the shaded area the amp is capable of producing extra power, although I found there was some loss of clean headroom and general tonality when pushed hard at the top end of the power dial - this might be partly due to speaker limitations of course. The VT80+ reportedly goes up to 120w when the power-selector is fully cranked, but having briefly tried one compared to a VT50 in store I am struggling with that claim because volume wise the VT50 actually seemed (if anything) louder.

I also fully tested out both a VT30 and VT40+ separately (see my you-tube demos) & the VT30 seemed to be if anything perhaps even louder & clearer when pushed than the VT40+. It was definitely louder than the VT40+ when set just to the beginning of the grey zone. I used the VT30 at a rehearsal with a drummer and it had power to spare. However, neither amp were any where close to the volume of my Class A 30w Laney VC30-210 - even allowing for two good quality 10" Jensen C1016Q speakers (versus a single Vox 'stock' 10" speaker), and a bigger cabinet, the volume difference is just colossal.

But cabinet size, construction, materials and speakers are all desperately important and perhaps this is the essential link to your experience because they can have a big impact on volume as well as tone. The VT+ stock speakers will be fine for most people, but a speaker upgrade can really help take an amp to new levels.

For example, my 15w all valve 1x12" class A/B Laney Cub came with a Celestion Rocket 50 (I'd have LOVED an AC15C1 but sadly couldn't afford it : ( ). For a budget speaker it had decent enough tone, but it's only rated 95dB, lacked bottom end, and muddied up when cranked. For a 15w all valve amp (perhaps similar to your thoughts on the VT80+), I was expecting it to have been a bit louder too and wondered how accurate the 15w rating was.

So, I upgraded the speaker to a 100dB 60w Celestion Vintage 30. The tonal difference was very noticeable - bottom end really tightened up, the muddiness when pushed went, and the top end was sparklier & mids punchier. But the difference in volume was HUGE because of the extra 5dB sensitivity.

This has nothing to do with the 60w speaker rating (15w Celestion Alnico Blues are also 100dB which is why they're noticeably louder than the Greenbacks in Vox amps). Take a 50w Marshall with a 12" 100w speaker rated at 101db and compare it to a 97dB speaker in the 100w version of the same amp. The 50w amp will actually be louder because the volume difference between a 50w and 100w amp with the same speaker is only about 3dB.

So, for more volume and clarity from your VT80+ (or any amp) a speaker change is worth considering but I would stress that speakers and tone are very personal and a louder speaker won't necessarily mean better tone to your ears.

Rich


Posted 1 year ago

 

argentino

Member

argentino
 

Voxman thanks for you extend reply... I Red with dificult, but thanks...

But i'm have the exact question,

Thanks ... But...

¿ With a 54W power consuption is possible output 80W RMS ?

¿?


Posted 1 year ago

 

 

I'll make the same comment here I that I made on the "other forum" (Valvetronix.net)

I can't give you a definitive technical answer, hopefully Retrobob will see this and can answer it. What I do know is that Class D amplifiers, which is what the new design is, are way more efficient than Class A or AB, which is what guitar amps have been in the past, and therefore consume way less power. I assume that, as a reputable manufacturer, Vox/Korg wouldn't lie about their power ratings and that these numbers are verifiable with test equipment, but I could be wrong. Again, Retrobob probably has done measurements on these amps and can speak to this.


Posted 1 year ago

 

argentino

Member

argentino
 

cosmicrepairdude, Thanks for you reply!

I did not know about Amplifiers of Class A, AB, or C. But i I know a basic rule, the amplifier can never give more watts than it consumes.

Only, i find it strange that with 54W VT80 can give 80/120W. All Valvetronix VT20+ VT15, VT30, VT50 and VT100, have a power consumition similar to its name... See it:

VT15: 28 W
VT30: 40 W
VT50: 57 W
VT100: 115 W

And now compare with this:

Power consumption
VT20+:25W
VT40+:36W
VT80+:54W
VT120+:66W

All models are reasonable Power Consumption/ Watts Ouput RMS OK, but except the models VT80+ and VT120+ .

And what I most mistrust is that the official website of Vox (http://www.voxamps.com/us/valvetronix/vt-series/) Figure it like this: "Power consumption: VT15=28W, VT30=40W,VT50=XXW, VT100=XXW" See the "XXW" WTF?

Not knowing how to do a test has me worried that my amplifier reaches 80 Watts. I need contact to Retrobob

Much thanks, Regars.


Posted 1 year ago

 

argentino

Member

argentino
 

ok, Nothing know about real RMS of VT80+ ?


Posted 1 year ago

 

 

If you can't wait for someone else to see this and answer, and you don't trust Vox, then I suggest you take it to the shop where you bought it or somewhere else that does audio repairs and have them test it with a power meter.
I don't think repeating the question every day will help get an answer any quicker, though.


Posted 1 year ago

 

jeffjo9998

Member

jeffjo9998
 

@Argentino....Ask someone on the forum who has gigged with a vt80+ in a band with a "heavy" drummer..(Yep and I don't mean a drummer who weighs 28 stone !)..they'll have a rough idea I guess.


Posted 1 year ago

 

argentino

Member

argentino
 

Retrobob u test RMS in Vt80 ? thanks


Posted 1 year ago

 

bendsup

Member

 

actually the vt80+ has 120 rms... believe or not


Posted 1 year ago

 

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