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Unhappy with your amp’s sound? Read this

Started 2 years ago by cosmicrepairdude

Topic Rating:


 
 

A large number of the posts I’m reading are about people being displeased with the sound of their amps. (too much bass, not enough bass, too dark, too bright, woolly, mushy, muddy, etc, etc) Suggested remedies usually include replacing the speaker, replacing the tube, or adding an external EQ, all of which cost money and, if unsuccessful, extra annoyance.

Voxman frequently reminds us to get the amp off the floor or tip it back, which will certainly brighten/lighten and project the sound, but it won’t clean up mud or add much depth.

I would suggest that anyone unhappy with the sound or tone of their closed back amp try stuffing the speaker compartment with some kind of sound insulating material. Retrobob suggested this to me (http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=3233 for the whole story) and it completely transformed the sound of my VT30, which, to me, lacked bass and was kind of honky in the mids. It now has deeper bass when I need it, and much clearer and tighter sound at all frequencies and volume levels. Some amp models sound quite different than they did before, and IMO, much better.

I used a pillow that happened to be the right size, so there was no cost involved. Just be careful to not let it touch the cone, block any ventilation holes that might be there, or have particles that could get into the voice coil/air gap. Basically, remove the back, add the stuffing, replace the back. Make sure all the screws are nice and tight.

I’d definitely suggest this as a first step, ahead of buying things like speakers, tubes or EQs. If you don’t like the difference it makes, it’s easily undoable.

Retrobob said this has been suggested before (and largely ignored), but I haven’t seen it, so I thought it would be worth putting out there again.

I love the sound of my amp now, and I was quite disillusioned about it before.


Posted 2 years ago

 

glennkennedy

Member

glennkennedy
 

That's a great idea, to be sure.

I may try it. A pillow works well?


Posted 2 years ago

 

voxman

VOX Forum Moderator

voxman
 

Another technique, if you're getting 'ice pick' issues is to use a cone diffuser eg 'Beam blocker' as made by Weber. This 'spreads' the speaker sound more evenly.

http://www.webervst.com/blocker.html

An EQ & or BBE Sonic Stomp can also be useful, even 'direct' (although better through an FX loop)


Posted 2 years ago

 

 

I used an old feather pillow. At some point I may experiment with other materials to see if there is a difference, but so far I'm pleased.

I suspect the link I tried to insert might work better without the parenthesis right up against it.
http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=3233


Posted 2 years ago

 

trew08

Member

trew08
 

Just added a pillow(about 12X12) filled with poly fill to the inside of the speaker cavity of my VT15.
Definitely a noticeable difference--for the better! The amp now has a richer sound.
I tested it on all the low gain amp models and the Express Train(my fav) and was NOT dissapointed.
Guitar is a Epi G400 SG. Still have to run the Strat and LP but I'm sure I'm gonna love it.
Great easy, cheap mod. tnx for the idea CRD.
TREW
Dan


Posted 2 years ago

 

glennkennedy

Member

glennkennedy
 

Do you think stuffing it down into the floor of the amp is the best positioning? Or right behind the speaker? Or elsewhere?


Posted 2 years ago

 

trew08

Member

trew08
 

I put the pillow right behind the speaker. I think if you put it on the bottom it wont have any affect on the sound.


Posted 2 years ago

 

tjnugent

Member

tjnugent
 

I am with you Voxman. I use a Beam Blocker on my AC15C1 and it really takes getting in the face with razor blades away. Web makes good stuff.

TJ


Posted 2 years ago

 

 

The goal (at least in part) is to prevent sound waves from bouncing around off the bare wood walls. I'd suggest curving your pillow or whatever you're using around the speaker to block off the back, side, and bottom panels so reflections are minimized or eliminated.


Posted 2 years ago

 

glennkennedy

Member

glennkennedy
 

Ohh, perfect - thank you!! I'm definitely gonna do this!
I may do it to my Crate too...........


Posted 2 years ago

 

tjnugent

Member

tjnugent
 

From what I have heard. Stevie Ray Vaughn used to put a piece of duct tape on his grill cloth right over the speaker cone. That is another way to diffuse the sound.

TJ


Posted 2 years ago

 

trew08

Member

trew08
 

after a full day of testing, I think I'm going to remove the pillow and go with something a little less intense. Was thinking of 1 or 1/2 inch foam glued to the sides and back of the of the speaker enclosure. The pillow really dulled it up .

trew
Dan


Posted 2 years ago

 

 

Interesting, Dan. If you read the thread that I provided a link to, http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=3233
you'll see that it was my VT30 that needed this kind of help, and the reason I knew it needed help was that my AD15VT (with only some 1/2 inch foam inside) sounded better to me. I had treated the VT30 with the same foam, but it hadn't helped.

Probably the smaller cabinets don't need much insulation, but I believe that the larger the cabinet and the more hard surface area for sound waves to bounce around, starting with the 30 watt size, the more damping material is required. And again I'll thank retrobob for pointing that out to me.


Posted 2 years ago

 

trew08

Member

trew08
 

Yea, I think the pillow was over kill. I'm gonna try some thin foam, maybe just on the rear panel.
Also just got a nice 10 inch speaker that I'm trying to get some info on--see speaker info post I just put up.
tnx
Dan


Posted 2 years ago

 

alphadog808

Member

 

Thought this might be interesting so I just tried it on my AD50VT-XL and my AD30VT, and yup, the guy is on to something, there is a change in tone. I originally tried it with a pillow, but it was a pretty tight fit in there so I used some old extra plush carpet I had and screwed it to the bottom and back of the cab...

I *really* liked the change in the XL...more bottom and just an overall more mid range sound...darker sounding...also seemed to hear more definition...it wasn't my imagination because my wife sitting nearby could hear the difference immediately. Sounded less "airy" and had more "punch".

As for the AD30VT, not so sure...I really liked the tone before this mod(unlike the XL) so the jury is out on this one. I had a really nice "middy" tone beforehand, this mod kinda made it *too* "middy"...I think playing with the treble and bass some might make a big difference...note, the speaker and tube on this was upgraded beforehand and that in itself made a HUGE difference in tone(in a good way).

I didn't make any tone setting changes to either amp, it seemed like the XL went the way I wanted with it's current settings but the 30 might need to be tweaked a bit to give it some high end. The good news was this mod is cheap, fast, and easily removable... :D

Oh yah, I only really messed with high gain stuff, didn't test the cleans...

Here's a pic of the XL's, "padding".
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c372/alphadog808/DSC00053.jpg


Posted 2 years ago

 

tonehead

Member

tonehead
 

A proper designed cab will have insulation materials around its insides and perhaps baffle separators in order to engineer the cabinet not have a resonance frequency spike.

The type of speakers makes a big difference. Many have taken to using low fidelity and low wattage "vintage" speakers to make a cabinet have a certain tonal sound. High efficiency speakers which can actually handle more wattage than the amp can put out, even at peak, frequently have a greater bandwidth and frequency reponse range. We do make better technology than the 1940s despite people try and use the new tech like 1940 and complain the old is better. From an electronic and engineering standpoint, not really. That is like saying all the old cars ran better and were faster than new ones.

Most cabinets, when you open them, will have some sort of insulating sound dampening material around the box, as without it, the cabinet will resonate and sound hollow or odd.
Usually a thin foam or better yet a fiberglass material will do the job. If you hook your cabinet up to a pink noise frequency analyzer you can easily see the resonate frequency and how to flatten out the peaks and bring up the valleys. Having your speakers coloring the tone might be desirable for some but it is not really good engineering and sound physics.

The best cabinets I had in a lot of years of playing were against the typical myths of speaker notions. I took these old Yamaha 4x12s which were very well built and solid, removed the speakers and installed some quality JBL MI-12 musical speakers. They had a thin layer of fiber insulation around the inside. When I pink noised them to see the frequency range and curve I was amazed they were almost flat from 40hz to 12khz, they were also like 400 watts RMS. Even running like 100 watts and less than that the sound was lush and full and they put out what came into them without coloring the sound.

I have a great 4x12 these days with the "vintage" load in them and it sounds great because it is a well engineered cabinet, in the future I will go back to the higher wattage greater efficiency speakers just to be able to throw anything into them without them tubbing out or sounding flubby.

You can stuff cabinets and change the tone but less is better if you put too much you will be sucking out the low end and also seriously reducing the projection and 3D quality of the cabinet. Doing things "by ear" represents a drastic failure to comprehend why we use measurement equipment to visually "see" what an amplifier or speaker is actually doing.

By all means experiment, that is a lot of the fun of guitar playing. Having some idea of how things work and why can only help being a "mad scientist".


Posted 2 years ago

 

 

Hi alphadog,
My original dissatisfaction with the sound of my VT30 was around the clean sounds, specifically Strat tones that, to me, were way too middy and indistinct. I was looking for crisp highs, and deep round lows with the neck PU (Hendrix, Gilmour type sounds). I couldn't understand why both the smaller and less powerful AD15VT and my open backed Peavey Valveking 112 sounded so much better. Even with mids turned down and bass and treble turned up, it had no balls. And as I had gotten nice tone playing my bass through the Tweed 4x10 (Fender Bassman) model on the AD15VT (at low volume), I was really disappointed how meek it sounded on the VT30. Stuffing the cabinet fixed all that.
If you rarely use clean tones, you may prefer the tone you have without the stuffing. The reflections off the bare wood may enhance your overdriven tone.
But if you like crisp cleans, the stuffing will help, and some EQ changes and maybe a little reverb may give you back the tone you like for high gain.


Posted 2 years ago

 

 

Tonehead, interesting points, but I think your comments are more relevant to PA speakers, keyboard amps, acoustic guitar amps, and hifi speakers (where the goal is accurate reproduction) than they are to electric guitar amps.
Electric guitar players have wildly divergent ideas about what they want their guitars to sound like. With all the varieties of effects, EQ settings, speaker designs and amp designs available, different guitarists can aim for and get very different sounds even while using guitars that may be identical. If all the amp designers aimed for flat frequency response, we wouldn't have a Marshall sound or a Fender sound, amps would all sound very similar.
Just listen to the different tones as you flip though the different amp models on the Valvetronix. Some are flatter, some are more or less scooped and some are more or less boosted at different frequencies. Speaker choice, presence or lack of stuffing, and cabinet design all played important roles in the sonic character of all these iconic guitar amps, aside from differences in electronic design.
And while I have a few amp models I prefer on the Valvetronix and some real amps I prefer to others, many other guitarists would undoubtedly prefer different ones. From the guitarist's point of view, all these choices are made to please the ear, in my opinion.


Posted 2 years ago

 

timmycat

Member

timmycat
 

When I first got my VT30, the speaker was WAY too icy, so I just cut up a black cotton t-shirt and put it behind the grill. Tone is perfect now - razor blades are gone, and you can't see the t-shirt behind the grill. I experimented with folding it over a couple times until it had exactly the right damping effect, and the grill screws hold it in place. :)


Posted 2 years ago

 

 

Now that I take my VT40+ to practice room instead of at the house i also notice the flabby bass. I use it for tight metal sound. Should I use foam or that gray isolating material, like studio uses. and you guys only do this on the back or also on the side panels inside..?


Posted 1 year ago

 

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