http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ VOX | Discussion Forums Topic: AD60VTX vs. newer VT and VT+ line vs. AC30C1 en Thu, 23 May 2013 21:32:11 +0000 http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31345 Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:16:00 +0000 voxman 31345@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <blockquote><p>Thanks voxman! If it hasn't been said often enough, it's a great service you provide here moderating this forum. If only you could convince my wife I need to spend $600 on an amp. :) </p></blockquote> <p>It's always nice to be appreciated - thank you, &#38; you're very welcome.<br /> However, even my services can't stretch that far...heck, I can't even persuade MY wife to let ME spend £500 on an amp! LOL </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31338 Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:11:52 +0000 wbesack 31338@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>Thanks voxman! If it hasn't been said often enough, it's a great service you provide here moderating this forum. If only you could convince my wife I need to spend $600 on an amp. :) </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31328 Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:59:40 +0000 voxman 31328@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>If all you need is the vox tone/chime, you don't need/want other amp models, you want to use pedals, and you can play it at a reasonable volume, it's a no-brainer...go AC15C1</p> <p>But if you want versatility, a wide range of different amp models, built-in effects, ability to use headphones and play at all volumes, then the AD60VTX will suit you better. </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31322 Thu, 22 Mar 2012 07:36:31 +0000 wbesack 31322@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>BTW - When I went to pick it up at my local GC, I spent an hour in a demo room A/B'ing the AD60VTX and an AC15C1. I had the VTX on the AC30TB model and eventually got a fairly close match. The only difference their tech and I could notice is that the VTX was a little harsher on the highs while the AC15 was a little smoother and slightly warmer. Still, it was pretty close. If I'd had more time I would have set the VTX to AC15TB mode to see if I could get a closer match.</p> <p>I've got 30 days to try it out. So far it sounds good but that AC15 is still lingering in my brain. :-)</p> <p>Thanks for everyone's input. Very helpful forum you have here! </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31321 Thu, 22 Mar 2012 07:27:52 +0000 wbesack 31321@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>My new (new to me) AD60VTX just arrived from Denver. Sounds great but half the screws were loose and it was filthy so I took it all apart to give it a good once over. I also did a full jack clean and lube. That helped it a bunch. It's much cleaner sounding than the AD60VT I had borrowed from a friend, especially the effects loop and headphone jack.</p> <p>The guys at GC in Denver had taken the back off for me to verify the speaker was the NeoDog. When they did so, they wadded up the insulation and just sort of shoved it in there crooked. Can anyone advise me how it would have come from the factory? It's the width of the cabinet but long so it's currently folded over. </p> <p>Should it just cover the back opening in double-thickness or wrap down onto the bottom? Should it be placed more closely to the speaker or kept back as far as possible to create an air space? Nothing holds it in place but a little friction so it's tough to get it to stay put no matter what. </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31287 Wed, 21 Mar 2012 00:22:28 +0000 rjh11 31287@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>Check out a Ac4tv pipe it through a one or two 12 cab hit it with your pedals mic the little guy through the pa. How i use mine and i play lots of the above as well and seem to be able<br /> to achieve good tone with this amp and i also use lots of analog pedals including old DMM and such. Easy to mod and cheap too! My two cents. </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31285 Tue, 20 Mar 2012 22:19:10 +0000 wbesack 31285@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>How close do you think an AC15VR can come to imitating an AC30TB? I just tried out the AC15VR and C1. Unfortunately they were in separate stores so no side by side comparison. I was pleasantly surprised with the VR and with the extra gain options, it seemed very versatile and I was able to get a nice drive sound at low volumes. However, I will have various drive pedals available and don't play metal so not sure how important that drive channel is to me.</p> <p>With the AC15C1, I could barely get the master volume up to about 1 and keep it at a bedroom volume while getting a little tube breakup with the Top Boost volume. An attenuator would be a must if it allows me to get the magic tone from the driven tubes without ear-splitting volume.</p> <p>So here are my requirements:<br /> - I play U2 covers 80% of the time (AC30TB sound required)<br /> - I use real pedals and want something that accommodates them well<br /> - Bedroom volume capability 80% of the time<br /> - Versatility to play other styles once in a while (Coldplay &#38; Foo Fighters to name a couple)<br /> - $600 limit on price (AC15C1 or below)</p> <p>Obviously the AD60VTX gets the win on versatility but doesn't seem very pedal friendly. The AC15VR seems more versatile than the AC15C1, especially at low volumes and is pedal friendly. The AC15C1 has the Top Boost channel which may be my best hope of approximating an AC30 with TB.</p> <p>An AC15VR with a top boost would probably be ideal - too bad they don't make them. Is there a clear choice here? </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31269 Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:04:37 +0000 voxman 31269@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>the AC15/30VR's aren't modeling amps. They use the 12AX7 tube but front end is (I believe) analogue not digital, &#38; the VR's are specifically designed to take pedals very well. So they are not the same as a Valvetronix. </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31262 Tue, 20 Mar 2012 04:17:28 +0000 wbesack 31262@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>After going back through all these great posts (thanks everyone for the help), I'll give the VTX a shot but I may also go do a little more in-person testing on a AC15C1. I've got to have something that will handle the pedals and give me the U2 tone. Wish I could find an effects loop mod for the AC15.</p> <p>Volume was a concern on the ac15 but for home use I could always put in an attenuator and pop the bright cap and put it on a toggle switch. Of course the wife may have her say in what my options are...$250 vs $600. Ouch. </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31260 Tue, 20 Mar 2012 03:33:51 +0000 wbesack 31260@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>Yeah, that was one reason I was going back and forth on the options. That's the good thing about GC's great return policy. I'll try the VTX for a couple weeks and if it just isn't working for me, I'll return it. But without getting into all the tiny details, isn't the AC15VR/30VR built with the same hybrid technology as the Valvetronix? Why would one of those be any different from using the AC15/AC30 models on the VTX? It's still half tube, half solid state, right? </p> <p>Also, there's plenty of solid state amps out there that work with pedals, right? Is there a fundamental difference I'm missing in how a modeling amp reacts with pedals vs. a non-modeling amp, regardless of tube or solid state. Or is it just Valvetronix that don't like pedals?</p> <p>Thanks for all this education by the way, it is very helpful. </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31252 Tue, 20 Mar 2012 01:00:08 +0000 voxman 31252@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>In all honesty, if you're a serious pedal buff, a Valvetronix is not the best option and I personally think you'd be happier with a straight 'non-modeling' amp e.g. an AC15VR/AC30VR, or an all-valve Vox AC15. </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31240 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 22:35:33 +0000 wbesack 31240@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>I'll just have to see how it all works once I get the amp and give it a good cleaning. I doubt the pedal compatibility is any worse than with the VT40+ as the signal chain is basically the same and at least I get an effects loop built into the VTX. Too bad it's not stereo. My DD-20 is stereo but only mono inputs on the VTX.</p> <p>Even if the pedals don't sound any better with the VTX than the 40+, it's still twice the amp as I had before for the same price. I will definitely look into getting the EQ and BBESSM. Guitar Center regularly has used ones for about $50-$60 each.</p> <p>As for the tube, there are a million options out there (sovtek, JJ, and Tyung-Sol have all been mentioned). Are there one or two that most people agree seem to be the best for this amp or does a tube change really matter in this unit. I've seen the placebo effect mentioned before when discussing this topic on other Valvetronix units.</p> <p>I'm sure I can do a lot with the built in effects, but being a U2 fanatic, I use the DD-20 to get modulated .1/8 delay at specific ms times. So I'll have to figure that one out somehow. I do like the built-in tube drive - very nice sound. </p> <p>My biggest problem in the area of external pedals is that I recently invested in a number of pedals and enjoy the ability to dial them in more so than what Valvetronix has usually allowed me to do. Also, I recently took up pedal building as a hobby (I built my Boss FA-1 clone) and will be working on a Fulldrive and Deep Blue delay next. I'd hate to build pedals with nowhere to used them. :-) </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31232 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 14:19:18 +0000 voxman 31232@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>Just to clarify, not a 'suggestion' of the Cryo tube - more a question if it's better/worse than the standard Sovtek.</p> <p><strong>Headphones</strong></p> <p>I agree, it's not brilliant quality but it's not bad &#38; only intended as an 'extra' for late night practice. Unlike the later Chrome/VT/VT+ V'x amps that have to use the headphone socket for other things too, whereas the Blues do have dedicated line-outs for everything - so it's a small price to pay. I'm sure Retrobob could come up with a mod to improve it. </p> <p>Make sure that you thoroughly clean all your jack sockets with a lubricated electrical switch cleaner that's safe on plastics. (I use Servisol 10, red/white can). Headphone/FX loop sockets are switching type. See here: </p> <p><a href="http://www.valvetronix.net/forums/maintenance-tips-on-valvetronix-amps-t141.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.valvetronix.net/forums/maintenance-tips-on-valvetronix-amps-t141.html</a></p> <p><strong> Line-outs</strong> </p> <p>I've used these for recording and they seem to work just fine. My recording skills and ability to use software are poor but these are some clips I put together many years ago via the line-outs (note: When I recorded these I used an EQ in front of the amp; didn't discover it was massively better in the FX loop til later!). Just straight out the amp, no added FX or post EQ (I didn't know how):</p> <p><a href="http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/?aid=5164/album1612" rel="nofollow">http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/?aid=5164/album1612</a></p> <p>(Honkey Tonk wasn't with the V'x - it was via my TLST straight through a mixer and properly recorded by a friend)</p> <p><strong>External FX</strong></p> <p>The FX in the Blues are pretty good overall - only the fuzz is poor but as that's an effect I don't use, it doesn't bother me. I was very impressed with the Tubescreamer - very authentic. Aside from being good quality, the built in pedals are in the correct position in the signal chain. It's designed to be used with the VC4/VC12 to give you great gigging/stomp box control.</p> <p>If you use an external pedal at the front end, the V'x will like some pedals but not others. V'x are not like conventional amps - the input stage is digital; the output stage is (essentially) valve re the 12AX7/valvereactor circuitry. </p> <p>In the FX loop, make sure your sockets are clean. Again, different amps like different pedals.</p> <p>I use no external FX other than (in order) EQ, BBE Boosta Grand, and BBE Sonic Stomp Maximizer in the FX loop. I find that the internal FX are plenty good enough, correctly positioned, sound good, easy to program in patches, &#38; I have stomp control with my VC12. External pedals are something else to set/tweak/worry about - I like to keep things as simple as possible. The only external pedal I might add is a wah to kick in globally on any patch, and free up the pedal section. I'll probably get a Vox V847 or similar.</p> <p><strong>BBE Sonic Stomp Maximizer</strong></p> <p>This is quite different to an EQ. All guitar speakers have a problem in processing all the frequencies thrown at them, at the same time - especially high/low frequencies. The result is a 'compromise' - it makes no difference whether you have a V'x or an expensive boutique amp with Alnico-blues - the physics is the same.</p> <p>What the BBESSM does is to separate the High &#38; Low frequencies, and very slightly alter the speed at which these reach your speakers. This lets the speaker process frequencies more efficiently, resulting in a clearer, brighter, bigger/fuller more '3D' tone. After a while you forget its on - until you turn it off! Once you've put one in the FX loop (optimal dial settings are both at 6-7) you'll never play without it. </p> <p>The EQ &#38; BBESSM each do different things - using the BBESSM after the EQ in the FX loop (it should always be at the end of the signal chain) gives you a tonal clarity &#38; improvement that neither can achieve on its own. I thoroughly recommend this combination.</p> <p><strong> Which external EQ? </strong></p> <p>Entirely up to you and your budget. The best stomp EQ IMHO is the MXR-M108 - it's 10-band with both gain &#38; level sliders, everything lights up nicely, it uses an 18w power-supply, is built like a tank and is as quiet as a mouse. Problem is price - typically £110-120UK. The Behringer EQ700 is only £22, is as good sonically as the Boss GE-7 (the industry standard) - actually, I find it even a bit quieter, and although the sliders lack the 'resistance' of the Boss and the casing is plastic, it's a tough little bugger &#38; you'd have to go some to break it. It has a nice bright LED, and battery access is easy (although I use mains). </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31231 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 14:15:26 +0000 wbesack 31231@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>One thing I noticed about the AD60VT I borrowed is that the guy never uses the effects loop. It wouldn't surprise me if the jacks were dirty but I doubt there will be much change. Headphone jack did get a little bit better with use so perhaps that's dirty as well.</p> <p>My drive pedals always seemed to work OK with the VT40+. Maybe this is no different but I was expecting more. To be fair, I've never had an all tube amp to try them through.</p> <p>I read one review after I purchased it that said they preferred using the internal drive effects rather than external, but that limits my control. In general, do owners of the VTX feel it takes pedals well or does everyone just use the built-in's? </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596&page=2#post-31230 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 14:03:57 +0000 stikoun 31230@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>wbesack, when you say the drive pedals don't sound good, do you mean they don't even sound as good as through your VT40? With any modeling device I have tried so far I never liked my drive pedals as much as through a "real" amp. I know, I know, this is to be expected. But so many people on the web have claimed that a modeling device XY takes pedals just as well as a real amp. I have yet to find such a device (and I would be willing to pay good money for it). </p> <p>Even my Tech 21 Liverpool, which is analog, doesn't respond to pedals the same way as tubes. Or, to be exact, completely different pedals sound good through it. A good example is my Rat 2, which I really like through my AC15 but not much with my Liverpool. On the other hand, Boss BD-2 doesn't pair well with my AC15 but sounds much better through the Liverpool. Go figure.</p> <p>That all said, I can understand that there are limits to how modeling amp/MFX take pedals going INTO them. But why does your DD-20 sound uninspiring through the loop? The only thing I can think of is some weird impedance mismatch. Whenever I had issues with unexpected lack of clarity, it was usually because of impedance issues. </p> <p>Is the fx loop poorly designed? Perhaps some sort of buffer would help? Or maybe the EQ Rich suggests would take care of this too (apart from making the amp sound better overall)?</p> <p>What you write is interesting, if unsettling. Unfortunately, as I have no experience with this particular amp, I don't think I can help much. But I'm interested to see if/how you solve the issue. Fingers crossed! </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596#post-31226 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 05:24:38 +0000 randman 31226@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>I think one other thing you might want to do is change the tube, I found the Sovtec 12AX7 WC really opened my VTX60 up, big differences in the AC models. Fairly cheap about $15 US, I did post last week on some 12 or so tube changes.</p> <p>Or you may want to check out the Voxmans suggestion on the Cryo version of the Sovtec 12AX7, wasn't tested, but I'm ordering one just because I'm a freak!! Congrats on the VTX </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596#post-31224 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 04:34:23 +0000 wbesack 31224@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>I also noticed that listening through headphones is pretty lame. Sounds like listening underwater. Mine aren't the most expensive headphones but they aren't cheap. Obviously headphones is not the preferred way to use this amp when it has such a nice speaker. Is there something about this circuit design that explains why headphones don't sound so great? Is the line out for recording any better? I hope so. </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596#post-31219 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 04:02:51 +0000 wbesack 31219@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>Thanks Rich! Yes, I did just finish watching your video. The second one especially showed the huge difference that the EQ made.</p> <p>As I mentioned, I borrowed a AD60VT from a friend to try out and the only think I'm not so wild about is that when I run my Boss DD-20 delay in the effects loop, it sounds less than spectacular. The built-in delay in the amp seems much clearer, crisper, and just plain better. I've got a Behringer RV600 Reverb Machine in there too that I use for shimmer and it sounds only so-so as well.</p> <p>Even my TS9 and TS808 that I'm putting in front of the amp don't sound quite as good as I thought they would. In comparison, the on-board Tube Drive model sounds pretty nice. Am I doing something wrong? Does this amp just not like pedals? :-)</p> <p>Recommendations on the eq pedal? I think you mentioned the Behringer in the video, but I have not been impressed with the all plastic construction of my RV600 but they are dirt cheap. ...and the "Maximiser" after the EQ does what? Can it be used in place of the EQ? From what I read, probably not. </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596#post-31218 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 01:36:43 +0000 voxman 31218@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>Congrats on the AD60VTX - don't forget to put a 7-band EQ in the FX loop...massive tonal difference. </p> http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=5596#post-31214 Sun, 18 Mar 2012 21:30:40 +0000 wbesack 31214@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ <p>I went ahead and bought the AD60VTX without the foot controller. It was through GC in Denver so there was no haggling but with the exception of one in San Francisco, the average listing price was around $300 on Craigslist with a range from $250-$400. On top of that most people wanted about $50 shipping. </p> <p>With tax and $18 shipping I spent $250 total, which was about what I spent on my VT40+ new. I probably could have gotten a better deal if I'd waited but I've learned that sometimes you just have to take the opportunity that's in front of you, especially since it was near the low end of the going price. GC isn't my favorite store but they do seem to have fair prices on used equipment.</p> <p>Since I don't gig and use a pedalboard, I don't really need the footswitch but I can keep my eye out for VC4's and VC12's. VC4 looks kind of poorly made and as Voxman pointed out, I lose some functionality, but the VC12 is just plain too expensive for a "nice to have" if I can pick up a VC4 for $100.</p> <p>GC did offer a year's coverage for $25. I don't usually buy that stuff but maybe I will add it. Are the VTX's pretty reliable units? </p> <p>Thanks for everyone's advice. Looks like I will have a VT40+ on the market soon. Works great unless you want to crank the power and volume on the AC30TB model. ;-) Craigslist here I come. </p>