VOX | Discussion Forums Tag: VT Amps

VOX | Discussion Forums Tag: VT Amps http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ VOX | Discussion Forums Tag: VT Amps en Thu, 23 May 2013 01:50:05 +0000 markerf16 on "Delay max on VT series?" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=4207#post-22299 Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:35:50 +0000 markerf16 22299@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ Anyone know whats the max delay time on the VT series amps? I heard 5800 milliseconds.. mr_tawan on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004&page=2#post-10613 Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:32:23 +0000 mr_tawan 10613@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ Just realized that VT30 also have multi-effect built in. 3 of them can be actived at the same time, and reverb is always available. But again, I would use my multi-effect instead. mr_tawan on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004&page=2#post-10612 Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:20:42 +0000 mr_tawan 10612@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ Hi, I've joined the forum today, just bought VT30 the day before yesterday (I can say it's great, even I've just play with it for a couple days). I'm pretty new to VOX's stuff, so feel free to give me some suggestions :-). Anyway, let's get to the topics. AFAIK, the Valvetronic series just launched not so long ago. I'd say it's great comparing to other companies' modelling amp. Well, .. I'm an engineer myself, so I know that R&D would take some time before the department can have some 'cool stuff' ready for the market. And also I don't think the R&D is large enough to handle several products at the same time (VOX have a lot of product to take care of already.). So give them some time. One thing to consider, I think, a guitar amplifier should only be an 'Amplifier'. If you put a lot of feature into an amp, it would end up being either a collection of junks (can do everything, but with poor performance), or an expensive not-so-good universal device (with the same amount of money, people will choose the product that fit their needs instead). Vox should focus on building the great amp, rather than putting not-really-fit features into it. This would become junks. I think the current set of feature in the VT amp is good already, although I'd like to see some more (how greedy I am ?). The reason I decided to go with VOX instead of Peavey is, VYPYR has built-in multi-effect. This is not quite bad, but I would go with external effects (and I already have a multi-effect). Having too much things is not a good idea, IMO. Yes, for the same amount of money, you will have more. But at the time you decided to go further, you will end up with having things you won't use. Having only a great amp (with minimal effects) is way better than a good amp with multi-effect, especially in one device. Having USB port to share the setting with user is great, but having it for an audio interface ... is definitely not a good idea. I have Zoom G2.1u (which have an audio interface built-in), and get sick from switching devices when working with DAW. Later I bought a DI and plug it though, this works way better. Also the setting sharing/storing is not really a mandatory feature anyway (it's more like a convenience feature, I think.). voxman on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004&page=2#post-10604 Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:56:49 +0000 voxman 10604@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ BTW Voxman your effects loop Sonic Maximizer suggestion is awesome. Cheers 50C, glad you like it - although more precisely its EQ followed by the BBESS in the FX loop. I also have a Marshall Bluesbreaker II (set to 'boost') after the BBESS in the FX loop, to give a lead volume boost - a feature sadly lacking in the 'Blue' amps, even with the VC12. <a href="http://www.valvetronix.net/forums/voxman-s-fx-loop-pedalboard-for-ad120vtx-t3261.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.valvetronix.net/forums/voxman-s-fx-loop-pedalboard-for-ad120vtx-t3261.html</a> Rich 50_caliber on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004&page=2#post-10603 Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:11:38 +0000 50_caliber 10603@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ Slightly true. Amps effects loop return are inserted post preamp into the mix. So when you run your guitar into your TL and then the left and right outs of the TL to the Left and right return of your AD120VTX effect loop, you bypass the preamp and all the amp models of your AD120VTX. It's a little pointless then too have the AD120VTX Preamp but you take advantage of a stellar power amp section of that unit and the extra option of your TL. But that's most effects loops. Not all. Not recommended. It gives you some options. I got board one day and tried with me TLSE on my one AD120VTX. BTW Voxman your effects loop Sonic Maximizer suggestion is awesome. voxman on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004&page=2#post-10570 Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:38:59 +0000 voxman 10570@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ Or by the AD120VTX and a Tonelab. Uh uh - mixing a modelling MFX and a modelling amp is asking for trouble. You'll get conflicting amp models, muddiness, & extra noise! If you put the TL through the FX return & use the VTX only as a power amp then its pointless and you may as well just use a 'straight' amp or PA. But apart from that 50C, you've highlighted very effectively that there are other solutions using combination gear - which is even more reason as to why Vox' target market for a flagship Valvetronix will be smaller - internal competition from its own product range! And don't forget the all new AC15VR & AC30VR - all reports say these puppies are awesome, & they're likely to sound even more versatile with all the extra stuff in a Tonelab! Rich 50_caliber on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004&page=2#post-10569 Wed, 10 Feb 2010 23:21:20 +0000 50_caliber 10569@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ Wow! I've been reading this one for a while. I think it's cool some else other then me is pushing for a Black Diamond. Let's look at the big picture. Companies don't cater to your individual music needs. They try to build an amp that meets a lot of needs of many. It has to meet effective price points and build quality so that you the consumer (you and us) will buy it and they make a profit. Many times we look at the companies (Vox, Marshall, Peavey, Line 6, etc) and think they are ginormous. That's because the artist whom they back, are. You better bet Vox is working their tales off every year to bring you the consumer what they need. It's up to you to make it work. Unless your Joe Satriani, your going to have to pic a tonelab and an amp. Or a valvetronix that works for you. If you want all tube with valvetronix by and AC15 or AC30 and a tonelab. If you want a Valvetronix with upgraded patch naming capabilities, by a tonelab. Or by the AD120VTX and a Tonelab. If you want usb outs on your Valvetronix by a tonelab. If you want Vox to build a Black Diamond. Go take lesson from Joe Satriani, get to rockstar status, and then call Vox. I hope ya'll are getting the point. viesczy on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10547 Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:42:37 +0000 viesczy 10547@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ You'd think that they could somehow marry the Tonelab ST into a head or into a VT100 type 2x12 that has aux out w/o cutting out the amp's speakers. Use the existing VT5 in conjunction with a little LED display on the amp to know which of the banks you are and BAM you have 100 watts of 33 amps with a good # of effects to twiddle and fiddle with to your heart's content. Derek voxman on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10450 Sat, 06 Feb 2010 11:25:37 +0000 voxman 10450@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ Moving back to the original theme of a Flagship Valvetronix, here's an example of what Vox is up against and why I said any new generation Valvetronix IMHO MUST have a full complement of preamp & power tubes. This is a clip I found of the Peavey Vypyr tube 60. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQHC1I_a_14&feature=channel" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQHC1I_a_14&feature=channel</a> The rock crunch & touch sensitivity is all valve tone! Modelling & effects utilise a 32-bit floating point processor (that I mentioned earlier). Spec wise, its packed with features inc. studio quality headphone output, 24 amp models (12 models, 2 channels for each). Some of the effects aren't great, build quality is suspect, speaker is probably budget, and there are other nitpicks you can make. But for a street price of £399 plus only £125 for the Sanpera II floor controller (pretty much a full jobby) you've got to admit that its a lot of amp for the money. The latest Line 6 Spider Valve Mk II (all fitted with Celestion V30 speakers by the way!)is £479 (1x12) & circa £600 (2x12) plus £159 for the floorboard. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezSjh2abPOY" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezSjh2abPOY</a> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1diPEy9XR0" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1diPEy9XR0</a> Cloud9 - If Vox could kick butt with a truly well made, great sounding, well designed all-tube Valvetronix with a proper full featured floor controller all-in for say £700-800 tops (maybe £900 with floor controller for a bigger 100w combo flagship) THEN I think it could compete. But that's what its up against in this sector. Rich cloud9 on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10426 Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:59:16 +0000 cloud9 10426@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ I'd have to agree with Glenn, the Atomic amps are not the answer. I fully understand because I've tried to find a solution to finding an amplifier for the Tonelab and have never been fully satisfied with the options on the market. The Atomics are basicly a tube version of Tech 21's Power Engines, a cool idea but just not for everyone. Like Glenn mentions, guitar players want a traditional looking amp head that you can plug a modeling device into, tweak a few knobs, crank it up and play. I, myself, have resorted to a PA head at one time, a Power Engine combo after that, and finally rack setup but I would have preferred a good sounding amp head (without pre-amp coloration) above all. Now, I know you can run the Tonelab's output through the effects loop of a tube amp head and that bypasses the preamp of the head. It actually sounds good but it's not the ideal setup because you can't use any of the tone or volume controls on the front panel. A good solution would be an amp that has a transparent preamp section that will allow basic eq, volume and boost controls without coloring the amp modeling sounds. If it was offered in a variety of sizes and wattages (more selection then Atomic), with the look and name of a classic made amp (Vox) then I think it would not only be successful, but it would probably open up a whole new market in amplification, spurring clones from other companies, and expanding the digital modeling market all together. Of course extra features like stereo sound, output connections, auto-biasing, etc. would also be great. I think Glenn has a good point, that no one has come forward and made something that the traditional player can easily gravitate towards. If it looked like a guitar head, sounded great with digital modeling, and was priced right - they'd sell. Currently, I think the majority of modeling devices (Tonelab, Pod, Boss, Digitech, etc) are mostly aimed towards home and studio recording. An amplifier like this would allow players to realistically and comfortably integrate these units into a live playing situation, which I think is long overdue. voxman on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10421 Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:17:05 +0000 voxman 10421@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ Glenn - the Atomic is a valve driven 'full range flat response' unit- exactly what you need for a modelling unit like Tonelab - unlike a Marshall or Fender it won't colour the Tonelab or other MFX, allowing the modelling to shine through. It was custom designed for this purpose. If Vox decides to make a better unit of course, then so much the better - but unlike the Tiny Terror, I don't think the market is there . Rich glennkennedy on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10419 Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:16:22 +0000 glennkennedy 10419@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ "'It might be nice to see an All-Valve Power amp that is a perfect match for a ToneLab.' Already exists - its called the 'Atomic Reactor' amp - & it's specifically designed for any modelling MFX unit. <a href="http://www.fractalaudio.com/products-at-reactor.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fractalaudio.com/products-at-reactor.html</a> As I intimated, you've got to be fully aware of the market, new products, and new competition that competes either directly or indirectly with your target market!" Forgive me if I'm wrong, Voxman, but isn't the Atomic Reactor more of a a powered speaker system, ie combination Power Amp and speakers? I do think many guitarists are a bit reluctant to use something that: a) Is only available in a certain style and speaker combination b) Looks rather hi-fi and post-modern in comparison to so many trusted old favourites c) Is a combo that isn't a combo (if you see what I mean) d) Is only available at a certain price-point, and e) Comes from a relatively new and less-established name. A SEPARATE power-amp that has a classic "head" look, can be used in a way that is a familiar set-up AND LOOK to anyone with a passing knowledge of modular systems, bears a classic "rock'n'roll name" and can be matched with the speaker cabinet and speaker combination one chooses, as well as be switched to different speakers depending upon one's gigging situation at any time isn't, as far as I know, available from Fractal Audio. I myself would have no qualms about using one, but many players I know would utterly shy away from using one in lieu of, say, a Marshall half-stack. Many, many guitarists lean with utter dependency on the security blanket of the tried-and-tested, the familiar, or at least that which SEEMS familiar enough. Many guitarist, I reckon, who feel that way would be much more inclined to play something that bore the VOX brand, had the familiar appearance of a standard guitar cab beneath it and that they knew could be utilized just like the amps they are so used to. Plus something that were announced as a perfect pairing with the Tonelab would take a lot of questions away, I feel. Shown a familiar preamp/poweramp/cab setup (as opposed to a "Full Range Amp and Personal Monitor"), many would - you may disagree but I honestly think so - be way more inclined to consider using such a system and hence getting into Amp Modeling and Integrated Effects and would surely also serve as a springboard into continuing to consider Vox as a leader in guitar amplification. And even if someone HAD already done the very same thing, Vox didn't shy away from making the NightTrain because Orange had the Tiny Terror, did they? Or not bother with the AC4TV because Fender had the Champion 600 available. And there's very good reason for that. IMHO Vox does it better and I see no reason to doubt that they would continue to do so with any new products. Given the choice, I'd rather buy a Vox system were it available. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. voxman on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10416 Fri, 05 Feb 2010 01:32:18 +0000 voxman 10416@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ AFAIK the BD was mono. One valve, one powerstage, no stereo delays, no mention of stereo in any of the 'spec' that went to market eg the link I posted. If it was stereo, I'm pretty sure Vox would have wanted that to stand out tall & proud! What I heard sounded good but unfortunately I couldn't play it at volume because of LIMS limitations, so I can't comment on the big tonal/feel/response questions as compared to an all valve amp. cloud9 on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10415 Fri, 05 Feb 2010 01:28:40 +0000 cloud9 10415@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ I looked at the specs of the VTX200 on harmony central and it does say it was stereo, but you're right about the features. Better patch naming, USB and better processing would be things I'd like improved. What did you think about the sound? Was it much better than a AD120VTX? Well, maybe if Vox can't pull it off they could just update the Tonelab to a new Tonelab Black Diamond! voxman on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10414 Fri, 05 Feb 2010 00:46:57 +0000 voxman 10414@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ Cloud 9 said: Currently the VT series of amps are pretty affordable. What if they only doubled the costs for a new line of premium amps, adding features and quality at a price well under the price of all valve amplifiers. Sorry Cloud9, but only in your wildest dreams! I think there's a lot of valid ideas in this topic. I'm not completely convinced that R&D would have to be that extensive. I admire you're hopefullness but you're just not catching on to what is needed in the real world. The Black Diamond 200VTX Prototype (Which I played at LIMS in the UK) was expected to sell at circa £1200 plus £200 for the floor controller - and feature-wise that was simply nowhere near good enough to compete successfully with the Line 6 Vetta II & it needed significant further development. Also, unlike the 2 valve stereo AD120VT/VTX/VTH, the Black diamond amp had only one valve and was mono. See: <a href="http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product.asp?id=9292" rel="nofollow">http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product.asp?id=9292</a> Biggest problems were: 1. Lack of patchnaming facilities - vital in a top end amp (could you remember 128 patches?!), 2. No USB connection, 3. No (at least not in the prototype) on-line upgrading capability 4. Single chip which gave far less processing power as compared to the 2xSharc 32 point chips in the Vetta II and Hughes & Kettner 'Zentera'. 5. The VC-12SV floor controller was too big & cumbersome with insufficient features - apart from colour, it was identical to the VC12 and similarly had no patch-naming facilities 6. Pedal effect section was still a problem - it gave 2 sets of options as opposed to 1 in the AD60/120's that was an improvement, but it simply wasn't flexible enough to compete at the top end. 7. Single input (AD60/120's have both Hi & Lo) Now, and with all due respect and credit to Vox for trying to develop a new Valvetronix flagship, would you be willing to spend £1,400 on an amp with these types of limitations from outset? And how would you feel at losing possibly half your money after a year or so if you wanted to sell it? That's why Vox pulled the Black Diamond, (& no doubt the bad timing of the recession was a major factor too) and why I said that IMHO it was simply too little too late. It needed significant development, & the timing was just unfortunate. Maybe one day we'll see a new uprated & re-designed black diamond emerge - but I don't think you'll see this in the foreseeable future. 'It might be nice to see an All-Valve Power amp that is a perfect match for a ToneLab.' Already exists - its called the 'Atomic Reactor' amp - & it's specifically designed for any modelling MFX unit. <a href="http://www.fractalaudio.com/products-at-reactor.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fractalaudio.com/products-at-reactor.html</a> As I intimated, you've got to be fully aware of the market, new products, and new competition that competes either directly or indirectly with your target market! Have you heard the new Laney Prism's? - yet another new entrant to the modelling sector - & unlike the Peavey Vypyr... it's a good'un! And I wouldn't be surprised if Laney weren't planning a 'flagship' of their own once they get a good foothold in the market. And that's yet another one Vox has to watch - so as I said, it ain't easy!! If you're still not convinced, .... well, it's OK to dream I suppose! lol Rich cloud9 on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10390 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:29:43 +0000 cloud9 10390@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ Hmmmm... some interesting points, indeed. I have a few thoughts for voxman: voxman said: 'Such an amp would be expensive...It must therefore be aimed at winning over tube purists' Currently the VT series of amps are pretty affordable. What if they only doubled the costs for a new line of premium amps, adding features and quality at a price well under the price of all valve amplifiers. This would appeal to a large market of high end and low end buyers. Now, if you were to add an all-valve power amp to these units that would definitely boost the expense of production but, as you mention, they would be targeting these amps to buyers willing to absorb these extra costs. I think there's a lot of valid ideas in this topic. I'm not completely convinced that R&D would have to be that extensive. They really don't have to reinvent the technology (unless that 's what they are aiming for). Vox has been able to modify their Tonelab floor models 3 times, each time changing features, effects, amp models etc. Why can't they just make an amp model that utilizes all this technology in an improved design? The cost of R&D would be minimal (I'm guessing, of course). I'd just like to see a product that reflects the quality of the Valvetronix sound instead of trying to market more low cost 'disposable' equipment! I like glenn's idea: 'It might be nice to see an All-Valve Power amp that is a perfect match for a ToneLab.' That would make a lot of sense. Making a practical amplifier customized for the tonelab line is something I think they should have made years ago. It would take all the guess work out of finding an amp that complements the tonelab and, as you mention, give guitarists a cool looking guitar amp instead of a PA or rack. I would love to see a new flagship model combining a tonelab and either a solid state or valve power amplifier! It would be a line of Tonelab Amplifiers and would have to include a floor controller the size of an SE, LE or ST. This would expand their market to modeling enthusiasts and valve purists! glennkennedy on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10384 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:37:43 +0000 glennkennedy 10384@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ It might be nice to see an All-Valve Power amp that is a perfect match for a ToneLab. That would give modelling + a valve in the TL + pure valve power. Even better would be if it LOOKED like a Vox head so you didn't have to mess about with racks and to preserve the look onstage. Then you could have TL + Power Head + Choice of Cab and have massive versatility in amp sounds and effects, with a chiefly valve-based signal chain. And great portability and simplicity of setup. One could also choose one's options around one's needs. For example, for those who wished for "flagship" prices and power, a TLLE + 100W Power Section = 4x12" cab; for those who wished greater portability and lower price, a TLST + 25W Power Head + 2x10" cab. Maybe "package prices" as well as the individual "mix & match" option. I dunno, just a thought. It's something I'd buy. thomastuerling on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10379 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:23:28 +0000 thomastuerling 10379@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ @voxman a tip of the hat for a dead on analysis voxman on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10356 Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:22:02 +0000 voxman 10356@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ Cloud9 said: <blockquote>Don't get me wrong, I do think it would be a great sounding amp, but tube amps are prone to constant maintenance, are more fragile then solid state amps and are backbreakingly heavy! The Valvetronix amps are lighter, more durable, and sound and feel very close to a tube amp. I think the pros out-way the cons. </blockquote> Some excellent points - & I'm sure exactly why Vox has launched the new AC15/30VR series & why the Valvetronix amps have been so successful. However, if we're talking about a market leading Flagship amp there are certain realities re target market: 1.Such an amp would be expensive. A fundamental target market would therefore not just be aimed at the higher end of the potential 'modelling' sector customers, because this is too small. Most customers buying the current VT Valvetronix range won't be able or willing to spend £1,000-£1,500 on a Flagship Valvetronix. It must therefore be aimed at winning over tube purists who want all-valve tone, feel & response but with far more flexibility than is currently available from curent all-valve amps. 2. For the latter category above who are used to heavier amps and valve maintenance, these themes will be less of an issue as they are used to this already. In particular, it will allow easy valve changing/experimentation and the valve section of the amp could be serviced / modded by a traditional amp tech. The difficulty with current Valvetronix amps is that currently they are entirely modelling configured and outside the expertise of most amp techs. A new flagship will still have a modelling section & digital/analogue effects so it won't solve that problem entirely if something goes wrong with the modelling section - but it does at least make it easier to service the valve section as needed, making it more attractive to traditional valve amp users. 3. If the valvereactor technolgy can be developed so that it really is indistinguishable from an all valve amp, then that would be brilliant - but so far that isn't the case. The V'x are arguably the best of the modelling amps out there - but there are still tonal & feel differences including interaction with external pedals, volume & tone guitar roll off, punch, Fletcher Munson issues (valve amps being less susceptable here) etc 4. Resale - this is important. When my AD120VTX came out, with a VC12 floorboard, the typical store price was £949 plus £215 respectively - nearly £1,200 in total! Secondhand combined prices today mean these can be found for £300-500 - perhaps a third of the cost! That's a hell of a rate of depreciation - but at least these are still wanted as the most versatile version and previous 'flagship. Prices for the ADxxVT chromes have dropped even more & are often considered as a 'disposable' amp. The problem is that as a new model comes out with more technology, just like a computer the prices crash. Made to a very tight budget & bearing in mind the target market, I'm sure that the need for lower longevity was considered accordingly when selecting components and materials. Compare that to valve amps that generally retain a much bigger percentage of their value and are held onto for years & years - & can even make a profit! Just look at the demand for older Vox AC30 & AC15 amps, older Marshalls etc. If you're making a flagship, buying attitudes have changed particularly in more difficult economic conditions. People simply won't pay £1,000-1,500 for a new amp that drops in value like a stone. Which is why it needs to mix state of the art technology and traditional amp design, must be easily upgradeable, made with quality materials/components, and must benefit from first class customer support from dealers and Vox. That's a big conundrum to unravel and risk a huge R&D outlay on. Even before you get to the drawing board you've somehow got to assess your target market as accurately as possible, work out how many units you've got to sell to make a profit, allow for changes in component/material costs in the period from starting design to bringing the product to market and so on. And all of this before you even consider market competition. I think a flagship valvetronix is a lovely idea - but I think its not supported by demand. I consider myself one of the biggest exponents of the Valvetronix concept - & no matter how good the new flagship might be, I couldn't justify £1,000-£1,500 to upgrade when my AD120VTX does the job I need - even with its limitations. I suspect many other existing customers fall into that category - so there's another example of why there's a smaller target market to aim for. As a case in point, Vox developed the Virage guitars - very nice! And they have found fans & customers. But the price point was too high to get the number of sales needed, and when you're up against PRS & Gibson products that have a certain kudos, street cred and resale value, most folk will have one eye on resale values & go for the safer options. Vox realised this early on, got knocked by the recession, and have now launched a new range of lower priced guitars accordingly. It's tough out there to say the least for manufacturers & designers to try & balance this complex equation - and so they can't always get it right. Bulk sales are their bread & butter, hence the success of the affordable VT Valvetronix. But a new market-leading flagship worthy of the title? - now that's a tall order! Rich lusthaben on "Vox needs a Valvetronix Flagship Amp model" http://www.voxamps.com/forum/topic.php?id=2004#post-10348 Tue, 02 Feb 2010 05:32:37 +0000 lusthaben 10348@http://www.voxamps.com/forum/ product differentiation is important to the sales picture, and makes for increased profitability. lots of vox fans own several vox products for that reason. . .and when technology moves forward in incrememts people like to upgrade. The AC30VR judging from demos does NOT appear to just be the AC emulation from a valvetronix amp, from what I have seen. some interesting developments in tne industry are the EH 22 caliber and the Lunchbox amp, which really push the envelope for size, with reasonable quality.